I enjoyed reading this series. I'd like to read a collab between you and Aella, writing about polyamory relationships. As I understand it, polyamory works well for low attachment-high sex drive people, but not high attachment people. However, if there was a way to make it also work for high attachment people, that would be great. Most of us are evolutionarily programmed to pair bond with one specific person, and simultaneously programmed to seek out multiple sex partners. The two do not work well together, but nonmonogamy for high attachment people perhaps works even less well. In studying the evolution of desire, sex is fundamentally associated with attachment due to evolution. If there's a realistic, scientific solution for converting high attachment people to poly or practicing nonmonogamy without jeopardizing a committed relationship between high attachment people, i'd love to hear it.
I'm quite certain I'll write more on polyamory, and I like this question to spark discussion and thoughts. Is there a test or framework for determining who is high vs low attachment, or have you seen that discussed anywhere? FWIW I don't necessarily feel "low attachment" - I just don't constrain my feelings of attachment to one person, since that feels unnatural. If anything, being poly allows me to be higher attachment by keeping people in my life even if they don't perfectly fit the life partner/father of my kids role. But it's possible we are using different definitions/conceptualizations of attachment. -Pandora
Good point, I haven’t seen any measurement or method of testing. This is just my own ideas based on my own experiences and limited understanding of evolution. Being attached romantically to more than one person seems like more of a “disorder” of types, because it’s contradicting how true attachment works. In my mind, true attachment couldn’t be to more than one person because we evolved to pair bond in two’s to raise offspring. But there may be something I’m missing, since we can be attached to multiple family members (a different type of love.) And people often remember feelings/attachment for multiple prior lovers, although it’s normally faded to less than attachment.
But I’m open to being wrong about a lot of that. Just fleshing out ideas.
I’d like to read or watch a debate between someone like you and some of those women who claim to regret being “sluts”, or those who remained virgins, reject the modern, sex-positive consent norms, and have returned to something close to traditional purity culture after seeing their peers experience endless abuse and heartbreak.
This is a question very much besides the point of a great post but: What was it like transitioning from CNC between partners to CNC parties to themed CNC parties? (If that's the trajectory). I'm curious because the acting involved in the mad scientist theme or the cult theme seems difficult! The ability to inhabit a role like that seems like a whole separate (fun/interesting/etc.) challenge to me.
The themes are much lighter than you'd think. You can choose your own engagement level with the theme (though most people make at least some attempt to dress to theme). I'm not really into LARPing or great at traditional role play, but this feels pretty natural. The transition from CNC with a partner to CNC at parties felt like a bit of a leap of faith, even under ideal conditions. I was lucky enough to already have slept with two of the organizers outside of the party and of course only made the transition once the timing felt right. But I'm glad I tried it! - Pandora
These have been really interesting accounts. As an older man whose most intense periods of sexual activity were the 80/90s, and therefore pre-Me Too, I feel a lot of guilt about my behaviour then, which fell into the 30s and 40s on the scale on more than one occasion. I would blame my lack of empathy on single-sex schooling and also a need for revenge that came from humiliation at an early age, but also plain bloody-mindedness. I rue the lack of education that existed during those decades, but also my own choice of role-models. Hopefully, there is more cogent education around these matters now. Even though social media still aims to sell (ideas as much as products) there are thankfully creators who actively challenge the binaries. Coming back to your content here — something that has troubled me over the last twenty years has been the potential death of spontaneity. Both Parts 1 & 2 had led me to wonder whether it was any longer possible, or even desirable, but this part has made me realise that it just needs a better context
I think it is a false dichotomy to imply consent orientation may preclude spontaneity. But I do think people need new models to learn from to get there. As I've hinted at in this piece, #MeToo era swing of consent norms needs some moderation and balance with how desire and flirtation work. I don't think rigid adherence to a consent framework is our ideal outcome, but rather instilling a true concern for consent and teaching empathy and communication skills. We have a future post "On Mansluts" that dives into this a bit more. Thanks for reading and reflecting and sharing! - Pandora
What also dawned on me is that as much as I believe I was acting more freely and spontaneously back then my behaviour was still bracketed by a framework, just not a very healthy one. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts 'On Mansluts'
Thanks for sharing this series. I really appreciate your education on the rape spectrum. This helped me reflect on my own experiences and hold myself accountable for the possibility that i may have caused harm. When we know better we do better, so thanks for the knowledge.
I enjoyed reading this series. I'd like to read a collab between you and Aella, writing about polyamory relationships. As I understand it, polyamory works well for low attachment-high sex drive people, but not high attachment people. However, if there was a way to make it also work for high attachment people, that would be great. Most of us are evolutionarily programmed to pair bond with one specific person, and simultaneously programmed to seek out multiple sex partners. The two do not work well together, but nonmonogamy for high attachment people perhaps works even less well. In studying the evolution of desire, sex is fundamentally associated with attachment due to evolution. If there's a realistic, scientific solution for converting high attachment people to poly or practicing nonmonogamy without jeopardizing a committed relationship between high attachment people, i'd love to hear it.
I'm quite certain I'll write more on polyamory, and I like this question to spark discussion and thoughts. Is there a test or framework for determining who is high vs low attachment, or have you seen that discussed anywhere? FWIW I don't necessarily feel "low attachment" - I just don't constrain my feelings of attachment to one person, since that feels unnatural. If anything, being poly allows me to be higher attachment by keeping people in my life even if they don't perfectly fit the life partner/father of my kids role. But it's possible we are using different definitions/conceptualizations of attachment. -Pandora
Good point, I haven’t seen any measurement or method of testing. This is just my own ideas based on my own experiences and limited understanding of evolution. Being attached romantically to more than one person seems like more of a “disorder” of types, because it’s contradicting how true attachment works. In my mind, true attachment couldn’t be to more than one person because we evolved to pair bond in two’s to raise offspring. But there may be something I’m missing, since we can be attached to multiple family members (a different type of love.) And people often remember feelings/attachment for multiple prior lovers, although it’s normally faded to less than attachment.
But I’m open to being wrong about a lot of that. Just fleshing out ideas.
- Alex
I’d like to read or watch a debate between someone like you and some of those women who claim to regret being “sluts”, or those who remained virgins, reject the modern, sex-positive consent norms, and have returned to something close to traditional purity culture after seeing their peers experience endless abuse and heartbreak.
This is a question very much besides the point of a great post but: What was it like transitioning from CNC between partners to CNC parties to themed CNC parties? (If that's the trajectory). I'm curious because the acting involved in the mad scientist theme or the cult theme seems difficult! The ability to inhabit a role like that seems like a whole separate (fun/interesting/etc.) challenge to me.
The themes are much lighter than you'd think. You can choose your own engagement level with the theme (though most people make at least some attempt to dress to theme). I'm not really into LARPing or great at traditional role play, but this feels pretty natural. The transition from CNC with a partner to CNC at parties felt like a bit of a leap of faith, even under ideal conditions. I was lucky enough to already have slept with two of the organizers outside of the party and of course only made the transition once the timing felt right. But I'm glad I tried it! - Pandora
These have been really interesting accounts. As an older man whose most intense periods of sexual activity were the 80/90s, and therefore pre-Me Too, I feel a lot of guilt about my behaviour then, which fell into the 30s and 40s on the scale on more than one occasion. I would blame my lack of empathy on single-sex schooling and also a need for revenge that came from humiliation at an early age, but also plain bloody-mindedness. I rue the lack of education that existed during those decades, but also my own choice of role-models. Hopefully, there is more cogent education around these matters now. Even though social media still aims to sell (ideas as much as products) there are thankfully creators who actively challenge the binaries. Coming back to your content here — something that has troubled me over the last twenty years has been the potential death of spontaneity. Both Parts 1 & 2 had led me to wonder whether it was any longer possible, or even desirable, but this part has made me realise that it just needs a better context
I think it is a false dichotomy to imply consent orientation may preclude spontaneity. But I do think people need new models to learn from to get there. As I've hinted at in this piece, #MeToo era swing of consent norms needs some moderation and balance with how desire and flirtation work. I don't think rigid adherence to a consent framework is our ideal outcome, but rather instilling a true concern for consent and teaching empathy and communication skills. We have a future post "On Mansluts" that dives into this a bit more. Thanks for reading and reflecting and sharing! - Pandora
What also dawned on me is that as much as I believe I was acting more freely and spontaneously back then my behaviour was still bracketed by a framework, just not a very healthy one. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts 'On Mansluts'
Thanks for sharing this series. I really appreciate your education on the rape spectrum. This helped me reflect on my own experiences and hold myself accountable for the possibility that i may have caused harm. When we know better we do better, so thanks for the knowledge.